This picture.That is the picture that started it all. Before it was drawn, nobody asked the question, or cared about it. A picture of Goku and Superman locked in combat. The someone drew the picture, and someone asked the question.
It probably went something like:
"Hey, who do you think would win in a fight between Goku and Superman?"
And that's when all hell broke loose, and one of the longest and most bitter debates on the internet began.
And today I will tell you about both of these two fictional characters so that you can make an informed decision of your own about who would be the victor.
Then I will tell you who I think would win the fight.
Then you can tell me to go fuck off.
THE DEBATE AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS
Google it for yourself. I know I have. A debate where almost everyone participating is badly misinformed. A debate that is almost exclusively insults being tossed around instead of arguments with any real basis to them.
Though there is a lot of badass artwork.DEATH BATTLE, a web series hosted by Screw Attack gets literally hundreds of requests everyday for them to do a battle between Goku and Superman. They are so fucking sick of it. About half of the comments on their videos are fanboys who want to see these two go toe to toe.
The biggest problem with this debate is that the people that support one side know nothing about the other side, making it one of the most misinformed debates ever. That and many people just pick the character they like better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GROUND RULES: In order for us to have a civilized discussion about this, we first have to agree about some things.
1. No holds barred: The most important rule is that both of these characters would be fighting to the death. This means that they will not hold back, and even if innocent people get killed, that won't be taken into account. This is to prevent people from saying "Well Superman would never do that!" and "they would have no reason to fight each other". Obviously not, but let's say they did and let's say they didn't mind taking out 9/10 of the universe in the process, because that would probably happen.
So let's just assume they do want to fight.3. No Kryptonite: that's just not fair. It's the one thing in the universe that can beat Superman. Having that is ridiculously unfair. Besides, how would Goku even find Kryptonite? He can only sense people's power levels, not scan for random objects. Also, the only way he could know that kryptonite exists is if someone like King Kai told him about it, and that would count as outside assistance.
4. Both combatants are at the strongest they have ever been seen at. I'll touch more on this in a little while, but this debate is also kinda stupid if we can't agree on which versions of each of these characters would be fighting, so let's just say.
SUPER SAIYAN 4 GOKU vs PRE-CRISIS SUPERMAN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 1: GOKU
-POWER LEVELS AND WHAT THEY MEAN
Goku is very strong. The world of Dragonball Z uses something called "power levels" to show one's strength. They eventually stopped using these, but here are some landmarks.
10: bullets will bounce off of you, and you can smash rocks with your bare hands.
4000: can effortlessly create an explosion visible from space, and large enough to destroy multiple countries.
18000: enough power to destroy a planet or at least cause great damage to one.
-GOKU'S POWER LEVEL ESTIMATE
The last time we knew what his power level was, he was fighting Freeza.
At that time, Goku had a power level of around 3 million.
Then he became a Super Saiyan, and doing so is a x 50 multiplier to one's power level.
The creator said Super Saiyan Goku was around 150 million.Many people also assume that with each Super Saiyan level, it's another x50 increase. This has never been completely confirmed, but it's a useful estimate most people use.
Now take Goku's last known power level, 150,000,000, and multiply it by 50 for each level of Super Saiyan he achieved after that.
(I'm assuming he plateaus at some point, so I'm using that to balance the additional training in between each Super Saiyan transformation.)
150,000,000 x 50 x 50 x 50 =18,750,000,000,000So by my rough estimates, Super Saiyan 4 Goku has a power level somewhere around 19 trillion.Obviously this is a little arbitrary, but it's the best we've got for right now.
GOKU'S SPECIAL SKILLS
-ENERGY ATTACKS: Goku can shoot many different kinds of energy blasts, including his signature attack: the Kamehameha
Goku is not limited to just the Kamehameha. He can fire multiple energy blasts at a very high speed. He can also use the spirit bomb, which is a little impractical for a one on one battle.
-UNLIMITED RANGE TELEPORTATION: This is Goku's ace in the hole for the fight. He can teleport anywhere in the universe, and get's there instantaneously. It takes a brief moment of concentration to use, and probably uses some energy. It's not really the kind of thing he can use constantly in a fight (yes he did that once fighting Meta Cooler but that was non canon, and he got very tired as a result).
Goku can teleport to literally anywhere, including the afterlife. That's right, Goku can go to Hell and back with just a thought.
-CAN SENSE POWER LEVELS: Goku can pretty much sense where anyone is in the universe at any time. You can be on the other side of the universe and Goku will just sense that you're there and he can then just teleport right over there.
-TELEPATHY: Goku has shown that he has limited telepathy on a few occasions. He reads Krillin's memories once by placing his head on his hand, and when fighting Vegeta on Earth, Goku also communicated with his friends through thought. This could just be seen as a residual King Kai thing, but it doesn't matter, as it has no practical applications at the level at which he used it.
-GETS STRONGER EVERY TIME HE ALMOST DIES AND COMES BACK: This eventually gets ridiculous in the series. If you don't finish him off, Goku will come back much stronger, with no apparent limit.
-CAN STAY IN OUTER SPACE FOR BRIEF PERIODS OF TIME
I'll touch more on this in a minute.
-LONGEVITY: At the end of Dragonball GT, we see the far future of their world, possibly like 80 or so years after GT ended, and Goku looks the same as he always does. This implies that Goku, around age 100, looks the same as he did at 20.
GOKU'S WEAKNESSES
-HUMAN WEAKNESSES: Goku still must eat, sleep, and breathe, just like humans. It should be said that he can survive in outer space or upper atmosphere for brief segments of time, but he can't breathe there and needs to quickly move someplace else (which he easily can, with teleporting). Goku is also still vulnerable to disease. When he was out traveling around alien planets, he caught a disease that gave him a heart attack. This was supposed to be fatal, but Trunks saved him.
-LIMITED STAMINA: Obviously Goku has a huge amount of endurance, but compared to Superman, he doesn't that much. He can still get very tired, and many of his powers exhaust him greatly. Also, Super Saiyan 4 uses a lot of energy, so he can't keep it up for very long. For this fight, Goku is the one who needs it to end quickly. If the fight were to drag on, he'd be fucked.
-LIMITED INTELLIGENCE: Dragonball Z likes to make jokes about this, and they exaggerate it quite a bit, but Goku is not very smart. I'm fairly certain he never actually learned how to read. He is also not much of a strategist. He tends to just use brute force and many of his plans, though they worked, were actually pretty dumb (spirit bomb, etc).
-CHARGE TIME: Many of Goku's stronger techniques require time to focus his energy. He can fire energy attacks without charging them, but his Kamehameha probably would need a second or two to charge, and the spirit bomb needs a ridiculous amount of time to charge before it can do any real damage. He generally only uses the spirit bomb when he has someone to distract the opponent or hold them off. There was one time in Dragonball Gt when Goku was preparing a spirit bomb and his opponent's attacks were simply bouncing off of him, implying he was temporarily invulnerable, but this took place in Dragonball GT, which as we all know, was full of bullshit.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 2: SUPERMAN
Many people today know a lot about Goku and the know what he's capable of, but few people know much about Superman, even though they think that they do.The problem here is a miscommunication error.
Those people don't understand that there are many different versions of Superman.
The Superman we're talking about isn't the Superman they're talking about.
WHAT VERSION OF SUPERMAN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
Here's how it works.
Goku is a character who only appears in one series, all written by a single man.
Superman has been in an insane number of different series, all written by different authors.
So naturally, there have been some differences.
Some versions of Superman could lift a car, and some could lift a mountain.
So we need to clarify what Superman we're talking about here.
Most versions of Superman are nowhere near strong enough to fight Goku.
The Superman we see in cartoons and movies would probably be equal to Goku around when he fights Raditz.
So that is why we will be using Pre-Crisis Superman for our discussion.
Also known as "Bronze Age" or "Silver Age" SupermanWHAT DOES "PRE-CRISIS" MEAN?
-Superman used to be a lot stronger than he is depicted now. Back in 1985, a story was written called "Crisis", which solved a lot of the continuity problems that was facing DC comics back then. It also made Superman infinitely weaker than he was at the time, because he was basically a god.
It was necessary.So the Superman we will be referring to is Superman from the comic books written before 1985.
We will do so because that is the strongest version of Superman.
WHY DO WE HAVE TO USE THAT VERSION OF SUPERMAN?
A lot of people ask why we have to use this one specific version of Superman from the comics.
Well, you don't see me trying to start a debate of who would win in a fight between Superman and Goku when he's ten years old, do you?
Just like everyone assumes Goku will be at his highest power level ever, it is only fair for Superman to also be represented at his peak. No one wants to see a fight between two heavyweight champions when one of them is having a bad day.
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS
Superman's original powers were:
Faster than a speeding bullet
More powerful than a locomotive
Able to jump tall buildings in a single bound
This is what a lot of people remember. A lot of people assume that all versions of Superman can only move around the speed of a bullet. They're wrong.
WHAT COULD PRE-CRISIS SUPERMAN DO?
1. He was strong.
How strong you ask?
He once threw a dwarf star, which weighed "trillions of tons", into a galaxy that was a billion light years away.
He did this effortlessly.
Yes, I'm just as curious as you are as to where he got the chainHow fast you ask?
One time, when he was racing Supergirl in a friendly competition, he moved trillions of miles in a few seconds. Maybe he can't move this fast in combat, but he probably can come close to it, especially considering he wasn't even trying.
It's implied he could move faster than this if he wanted to3. He was pretty much invulnerable.
How invulnerable is "pretty much invulnerable" you ask?
-He took a supernova to the face and it did nothing, and that was before he absorbed solar power. So yeah, that's a lot more impressive.
-He flew through the sun, and it did nothing.
-Darkseid is one of the strongest and most feared villains in all of comic books. Darkseid is literally a God. His signature attack is a blast that instantly destroys anyone and anything it hits, by erasing the matter from existence. He literally deletes your atoms. But when Superman gets hit by this attack, it merely hurts him and leaves him stunned.
That's impressive.
4. He was strong enough to defy physics.
Here is a picture of Superman moving a planet with his breath alone, when he was in outer space, and air doesn't exist up there, so there's no way he should have been able to do it.
Hey Scott, it's your favorite moment5. Super Intellect
Most people have this idea that Superman is the brawn and Batman is the brains. Well, back in the old comics, Superman was much smarter than Batman could possibly be.
Batman's smart. Superman's smarter.-Superman was so smart that he was able to build himself an army of robots that looked like him and could do everything he could do.
-Superman learned how to do a very complex surgery in about one second, and then performed that surgery which all doctors in the world thought was impossible.
-He could understand all alien languages, due simply to his intelligence.
That makes perfect sense.6. No Humans Weaknesses.
He didn't have to eat, sleep, or breathe. Ever. He was also immune to all diseases.
He will also outlive everybody, probably even Goku.
7. He sees and hears everything, pretty much everywhere.
His super vision and x-ray vision and super hearing basically let him know what was going on everywhere in the universe at all times. He could see and hear what was going on in other galaxies. I don't think he processes all of that information at all times, but he generally does listen for key words or phrases at all times.
8. Heat Vision
-Superman has used his heat vision to easily split planets in two
And he also once used it to reignite a sun, which is even more impressive.9. Hypnosis and Mind Control
- On multiple occasions Superman has controlled people's minds.
-It's given as the explanation for why nobody sees through his disguise and realizes that Clark Kent is Superman.
That's a picture of Superman using mind control, in case you were wondering.-He has erased people's memories on multiple occasions. He actually did this to Lois Lane in the second Superman movie. He erased her memory that they had had sex, which is pretty funny, since he got her pregnant. I never pegged the man of steel as a date rapist, but facts are facts.
-He also has telepathy. What? Don't believe me? See for yourself.
The writers were just fucking around at this point10. Shapeshifting
Seriously, I'm not making any of this up11. Time Travel
-A lot of people saw him do this in the old Gene Hackman movie by flying around the world really fast, but in the comics he could time travel at will without any planet spinning (because he moves so fast apparently).
As Brandon would say: "Superman OP, nerf please"
That happened. This is canon.
Well, that's my list of things Superman did back in the Silver Age comics.
You're probably seeing where this is going.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now let's talk about the fight
You're probably seeing where this is going.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now let's talk about the fightWhy I think Superman could probably beat Goku
I don't think Goku is an easy opponent for anybody, but I really think the old comics version of Superman has him beat.
-TIME TRAVEL: Superman could always just time travel to when Goku was a kid, and kill him then. It would be a simple matter for Superman to use his vision and hearing to locate young Goku. You might think that this is cheap, but I'm just saying, it's an option.
-MIND CONTROL: Goku has limited mental defenses. You could argue that since Goku has used telepathy in the past he might have some resistance, but those were pretty much one time only deals, and even as late as Dragonball GT, Goku was falling victim to mind control. Remember the brothers who could make you dance uncontrollably?
-VULNERABILITIES: You might think that using time travel and mind control are unfair, as this is who would win in a "fight"? Even with Superman not using those abilities, Goku is at a major disadvantage. Why?
It's a huge factorIt is difficult to say who wins in a contest of speed and strength between Goku and Superman.
A power level somewhere in the vicinity of 19 trillion vs the man who can throw a several trillion pound ball into a galaxy a billion light years away.
Personally, I'd say Superman, but it is kinda hard to say. 18000 could destroy a planet, so I would say 19 trillion is hard to compete with.
The thing to remember is that Goku just has many more vulnerabilities.
A fight between these two would most likely destroy whatever planet they're on, and Superman would quickly realize that it is to his advantage to do so.
Superman would destroy the planet, and Goku would teleport to the next planet. Superman would use his speed to catch up a second or so later, and the process would continue.
WAYS GOKU COULD MAYBE WIN
and reasons why they probably wouldn't work
-TELEPORTING SUPERMAN TO A RED SUN: I hear this argument a lot. People know that Superman is fueled by our yellow sun, and that Goku should just grab Superman and take him to a planet that is orbiting a red sun. That seems like a good strategy. Superman would be weakened and probably powerless.
WHY THIS WOULDN'T WORK:
First of all, how would Goku find a planet orbiting a red sun? He can only scan for living creatures, and he's not allowed to ask his friends for advice.
Also, what happens when Goku gets there? He needs a planet that is orbiting a red sun, and also has an atmosphere where he can breathe and has appropriate temperatures. The chances of finding one of those is a lot harder.
Also, if Superman can fly a trillion miles in a few seconds, then this version of Superman can probably fly away from the sun before it would weaken him. Red sun radiation takes a lot longer to hurt Superman than Kryptonite does, and Superman probably wouldn't stick around long enough to be affected.
Also, say Goku found a red sun planet, and teleported there with Superman and Superman flew away. They would most likely be stuck at a stalemate because Goku would want to remain at an advantage and Superman wouldn't want to go near that sun. As a result of a stalemate, Superman can always just go back in time and kill young Goku.
And how would Goku know about this weakness if no one told him?
-TELEPORT TO KING KAI'S PLACE: Goku can teleport and Superman can't, but Superman moves so fast there isn't much of a difference. However, there is one place Goku can teleport to that Superman can't fly to.
The afterlife.Goku could take advantage of this and of his ability to increase his strength after almost dying. Goku could prolong the fight and every time he almost dies, teleport to the afterlife where Superman can't follow him. Then Goku could heal his wounds and come back stronger every time, until he eventually catches up.
WHY THIS WOULDN'T WORK:
Again, Superman would just time travel. Goku can't win this by forcing a stalemate.
Also, teleporting away like that is a bitch move.
-KRYPTONITE:
I know it was one of the ground rules set forth that this wouldn't be used, but again, Goku would have no way of knowing about Kryptonite or of finding any of it.
-MAGIC:
Now we're getting somewhere. There is actually one legitimate strategy Goku could use to fight Superman. There's no way he would think of it without someone suggesting it to him, but for the sake of argument, let's assume he figured it out.
That strategy is Magic.
For those of you who don't know, Superman has the following weaknesses:
1. Kryptonite (hard to find)
2. Red sun (unreliable, doesn't affect him right away, and difficult to arrange)
3. Magic
Magic is a pretty reliable way to fight Superman, as he has little resistance to it.
He's sorta like a pokemon with high defense, and low special defense.
So what does Goku have that counts as magic?
None of his normal powers count as magic, and his kamehameha and spirit bomb don't either.
However, he has one real chance:
TA- DAAAAAAAAAAAAGoku's power pole is probably the best chance Goku would have.
Superman from the old comics was never really hurt by anything, besides Kryptonite, red sun radiation, and magic. Goku is strong, but I really don't think he'd be strong enough to hurt the man who shrugged off a supernova to his face. He would have to use the "Nyoi Boi", or as it's known in English, the power pole. A hit from that could probably hurt even the old version of Superman. But Goku stopped using for a reason, it holds him back.
Goku is really strong, but he's really just not the man for the job. There are plenty of people from the Dragonball series that use magic, and would be much more effective.
Any of these guys would probably be a better match against Superman.
In Conclusion
Feel free to have your own opinion, as long as you have some evidence to support it. But I believe that any battle between the two of these guys would almost instantly destroy whatever world they're fighting on. Maybe I'm wrong and Goku is just as strong as Superman, but Goku just has so many more weaknesses. It's so much easier to destroy a planet than it is to destroy Goku. Superman has also frequently punched very strong adversaries into the sun. Goku would obviously immediately teleport to the next planet he knows of, and Superman would fly there, and the process would continue. Eventually, one of two things would happen:
1. Goku would run out of places he knows he can fight
2. Goku would get tired
Superman was never seen to get fatigued ever in the comics, while we know Goku's powers require a lot of stamina.
So I believe Superman would win as a result of Goku needing a planet similar to Earth to survive on, and also because of Goku's limited stamina.
The winner: Superman
Feel free to have your own opinion, as long as you have some evidence to support it. But I believe that any battle between the two of these guys would almost instantly destroy whatever world they're fighting on. Maybe I'm wrong and Goku is just as strong as Superman, but Goku just has so many more weaknesses. It's so much easier to destroy a planet than it is to destroy Goku. Superman has also frequently punched very strong adversaries into the sun. Goku would obviously immediately teleport to the next planet he knows of, and Superman would fly there, and the process would continue. Eventually, one of two things would happen:
1. Goku would run out of places he knows he can fight
2. Goku would get tired
Superman was never seen to get fatigued ever in the comics, while we know Goku's powers require a lot of stamina.
So I believe Superman would win as a result of Goku needing a planet similar to Earth to survive on, and also because of Goku's limited stamina.
The winner: Superman
18 comments:
Great read, Kieran! One of the best blog posts yet!
Not bad not bad. Though I seriously doubt Superman would win. Goku has him beat on almost all levels in my book. These I feel were added up in a weird way. Didn't make it any less of a good read though. gj kieran. You know this would make a great arguement for a tip jar haha
i think goku would win as well... while ur points are correct goku can survive a planet explosion in terms of durability. Goku can hold his breath for an extremly long time,and his speed is as good as supermans...may i remind you that gokus power is limitless...... literally. as for supermans lasers... cooler, freza, and etc have tried the bitch move before, and it wont work now. AND, you forgot this oneeeee fact. Goku absorbed the dragon balls, and is therefore immortal, so yea theres that. But very well done blog however.
None of those things are correct. I don't know where you got the idea that Goku is immortal. I really don't. Goku has already died by planets blowing up. I really have absolutely no idea why you think Goku's power is limitless. Have you ever seen him eat and sleep and get tired? Cause I have. A lot. In GT he it was established how exhausting SS4 is. Also, let's say Goku does survive the explosion, where is he going to go? and while he's trying to figure that out, Superman will just kick the shit out of him while he's holding his breath, then use mind control, then go back in time and kick Bardock in the balls.
Maybe the Superman blowing was a dead skin cell secretly flaking off his face and hitting the planet lol.
I think it's worth noting that the modern Superman can lift a black hole.
http://i.imgur.com/WtyPc.jpg
In order to lift it he would need to able to exert a force literally greater than infinity. Though I guess some DC characters can also accelerate to speeds faster than light, so the existence of relativity in the first place is questionable at best.
But still. Pre-crisis Superman is even stronger than that. In case there was any doubt as to who can hit with more raw power.
*continues wanking off to Superman*
Finally, a very well made analisis. Everyone thinks Goku has 0 weaknesses, when, in reality, he's just as vulnerable as Superman would be to some extent. I personally think this would end in a tie, but, Superman has him beat. I've read the Dragonball Z manga, and in no way was there any hint that Goku could do most of what many people say he can do. For Pre-Crisis Superman, we have consistent proof of what he can do. As far as I've read and watched in the DBZ lore, Akira Toriyama has given little explantion on his work, leaving only for the fans to speculate. Goku, in the manga and anime, was strong enough to destroy planets and solar systems, but P-C Superman took a Supernova to the face and it didn't kill him. The other thing is the whole ''absorbing dragonballs'' thing: that happenned at the end of GT. If anything, that would mean its the end of the story. Why put something that hasn't even been shown as part of the argument? Its the end of the damn story, wich is left for only for people to speculate on. Anyways, this is just how I see it and have researched.
there are a few mistakes here, ifyou say that it takes a power level of 18000 to destroy a planet then naturally one of 19 trillion would destroy galaxies....also, in gt, saiyans could survive in space, another thing is goku can scream and open dimensional portals although he has never done so, it depends on power level, gotenks did it, goku is several timesstronger,so he can as well. and finally......u seem to forget that goku was transformed into a child and that is why he was still alive at the end of a the series...btw he had aged to about 50 or 40, and he had absorbed the dragon balls so....he has them on his person,all gathered together, he is shenron,he can probably just wish that his power level goes higher than superman's
Are people actually reading this at all? My argument is not complicated. I never, ever said Goku couldn't destroy galaxies. For all we know it's a possibility, but there's a difference between doing that with a kamehameha and doing that by accident with a sneeze. Big difference.
Second, all arguments that have to do with Goku absorbing the Dragon Balls at the end of GT should not be counted in my book, because we have absolutely no idea what it did. Fanboys call make all the guesses they want, but there is zero evidence to back any of them up. There is no evidence that he is Shenron, or that he can grant wishes. Furthermore, if they could wish to be stronger, they would already have done that a long time ago.
ALSO, the core of my argument is that it is much easier to kill Goku than Superman. He has far more weaknesses, and he gets tired. ALSO, MUTHERFUCKING TIME TRAVEL AND MIND CONTROL. SERIOUSLY.
Hmm...I'm not questioning anything you said about superman...(cause I know nothing about pre-crisis superman)
but there was a point in goku analisis that was just plain stupid
"He is also not much of a strategist. He tends to just use brute force and many of his plans, though they worked, were actually pretty dumb"
Goku is really a dumb guy in many aspects...but in fighting? He always used lots of strategies...some examples
1- when he fought tenshinhan in the tournament, there was a part where ten was falling from a high place and goku was preparing a kamehameha...but stopped near the end couse he predicted that it would just be a waste of energy(that's not a "great" strategy...but then again...he was 10)
2-Fighting frezza, when he had 3 million of power and frezza 60 million(cause he was using half his full power) how do you think goku managed to keep fighting for so long?
1st: frezza was kidding with him, not attacking at full power
2nd: Even tough frezza was kidding with him, he was still able to deal a fair amount of damage to him, how? well, at the beggining of the fight, goku was surrounded in smoke, and frezza was trying to hit him with some lazer from the eyes thing...when frezza missed him, he realized that frezza could not sense his energy, and started to use that in his favor, like when he was at the lake and send 2 energy balls at him so he became distracted...and some more stuff...but moving on
3-Fighting cell, instant trasmission kamehameha (just a quick example)
and so goes on...
You allways state that Superman goes back in time and kills little goku so future goku dissapears,? seems you haven't watched the dragon ball series enough. ( TRUNKS STATED THAT IF YOU DO SOMETHING IN PAST THE FUTURE WON'T CHANGE BUT THE PAST WILL)...
Beside you forgot the DragonFist, and KAIO-KEN Attack that can multiply his power by 100.++ Imagen that at GT? you overpowering Superman so much that he trows a trillion tons stone into other galaxy goku 100*19trillion 190 trillion's? Btw as if you know goku was training for another 100 years after GT and that pretty much makes him invi. And yes after Goku absorbed Dragonballz he became immortal, Since no one could use dragonballz for another 100 -1000 years it was mentioned in last dragonball episode go and watch. I won't say that he is stronger then Super man Pre-Crisis but im saying that you missed plenty of things about Goku, and you were saying that goku couldn't stay in SSJ4 for long ye he couldn't because he was in chilldform and that drained to much of his power he couldn't generate. and im pretty sure Super kamehame would tear superman appart, not to mention SolarFlare and Destructov disc.
Btw forgot to mention before arriving to planet earth vegeta had power level of 14000 (ETC POWER 21000) at the max.
At planet arlia he blew it up with a smille and 2 fingers without even powering up which requires not 18000 but around 2000-4000.
Which means goku could blow up.
47500000000 planets at 1 go if you counter that 190 trillion which is with his Super Kaio-ken + SSJ4 at the max /4000.
Just to some up most answers GOKU WINS
you said at their strongest you know the games made goku surpass supersayan 4 a long time ago plus after level 4 he gets his tail back and his gorrila form is even stronger than his level 4 but a few years ago i saw a game clip that made goku level six or seven and heard about even higher levels recently
well, recently in the new "Dragon Ball: Battle of Gods" movie goku reaches the "Super Saiyan God" transformation, which surpasses greatly the ss4 transformation. So goku has a lot more probabilities of winning the fight.
Honestly people, a black hole? and a dwarf friggin star threwn away a billion light years away. I really don't mean to be an ass here but everytime there is a fight between superman and someone else which involves (as DC would measure it)powers of exploding sund and such, there is not really that much damage, i mean honestly one exploding sun would deal away with the whole solar system, well here it only does a small crater on the earth when someone is hit with such power. Then there is time travel and infinite speed, well one is the result of the other actually, but yeah there is no such thing as infinite speed people, just the guys from DC didn't want to define stuff really well
You lied, Superman did not sneeze a solar system away, he accidentally inhaled magic powder that gave him the ability to that feat. Later on he the magic got out of his system, he sneezed again and barely sent a shock wave not destroying anything in his past. Plus that is also a lie on Goku not being able to breath in space. In the first episode of Goku vs Frieza, before Vegeta's death, Frieza noticed Goku looked like someone very familiar, It was Bardock, as soon as it hits Flashback Mode, We can see Bardock breathing in space like nothing, even low on health! Also I can see you obviously dont watch Dragon ball Series as you should to find out facts and analyze. I can already tell you didn't pay attention on Supreme Kai when he tossed a 4 MM Cube weighing with the the universes hardest metal named Katchime, It is said by scientist that currently a Neutron Star is the most hardest and dense in the Universe, weighing in a trillion tons per cubic Inch. Compare a cubic inch with a 4 MM Cube being created by a God that has his own universe and revolves around the 7th universe & thats just in base form with Goku & Supreme Kai. Plus Saying like King Vegeta (with a powerlevel of 10,000, stated form Toriyama himself) can triple planet bust IN BASE FORM and causing the destruction with NO effort at all could Kill Goku. also regardless if its non-cannon, Goku can launch his Kamehemeha from earth to the Sun in a split second, IT TAKES LIGHT 8 MINUTES TO REACH THE SUN TO EARTH. Saying that even tho that feat is non-cannon is like saying But Goku againts Cell is the same strength as when he launched the Kame wave againts Ultimate Cooler. Goku is drastically stronger than Ultimate Cooler & Ultimate Cooler stated he can destroy the SUN. You cant tell me that Goku training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (before fighting Cell) is the Same strength in the Non-cannon movie. Also Pr-Crisis Superman is not even O'Peed as everyone thinks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMIJp2hd4YA, My Friend Ryu goes back and looks at all the facts himself.
^ Except that it was NEVER stated that the sneeze powder increased his physical strength. That was already part of him; all the powder did was make him sneeze:
http://i.imgur.com/3zd79bO.jpg
Post a Comment